- Demir: How did you meet Balawi? Was it a traditional arranged marriage or were you dating?

Defne Bayrak: I don't want to give information on this. My husband was a student in Istanbul where I was living. In a way, we met. [A source close to Bayrak says they met on online chat rooms.] After that we learnt, evaluated and agreed on our opinions, family structure, and friendship. And we decided to marry. In the beginning of 2002, I went to Jordan and met with my husband's family. I stayed near my husband's family for two months. His graduated from university in 2002. Right after that we moved to Jordan. My husband worked in several hospitals there. We had our first child in 2003. In 2004 we had our second daughter.

- Did you marry while Balawi was a student?
Yes. We married when he was a final year undergraduate student at Istanbul University Medical Faculty. He stayed in Turkey for seven years. His Turkish, English and Arabic are excellent. He was very successful at the university.

- Did he work in Turkey?
He went as soon as he graduated. I went in September, too. We lived in Jordan from 2002 to 2009.

- During that period, did you visit Turkey?
I occasionally visited Turkey during summer holidays. My husband did not. We were living in the [Jordanian] capital, Amman. It was reported that my husband was born in the city where [Iraq Al Qaeda leader Abu Musab al] Zarqawi was born. It is not true. My husband, originally from Palestine, was born in Kuwait. He moved to Jordan with his family in the Kuwait war in 1991.

- It is said that the intelligence services contacted Balawi because they thought that, as another doctor, he could reach [Al Qaeda No. 2] Ayman al-Zawahiri more easily. What do you think about these claims?
I do not know anything directly about this. My husband told us that he was going to Pakistan as a student, to study. In our next phone call he said that he could not manage the university plan and would stay there to work. Actually, in the beginning, he said "Maybe I would stay here and you could come here later on". After several months he told me on the phone that it was not on track and he would not be able to be educated in Pakistan. He mentioned at that time that he wanted to take his chance in Turkey. After he could not come back and told me to move and educate our children in Turkey, I came to Istanbul.

- While you were living in Jordan, did you have any difficulties making a living or finding a job for him?
No, we did not have any financial problems. Moreover, economic conditions in Jordan are better than in Turkey. It is more comfortable to live even though Jordanian salaries are less than those in Turkey. Goods are cheaper than in Turkey [and] we were living in my father in law's house. There was no rent burden. Our economic situation was very good.

- Did he work in private or state hospitals?
Most recently, he worked in a United Nations clinic. Before that he worked in private hospitals.

- What was he generally interested in?
My husband used to follow jihadist forums on the Internet. Jordan and Turkey are very different from each other [and] people's interest in jihad is much higher compared to people here [in Istanbul]. You can easily see or find writings or images that praise or promote jihad on computers in everybody's office or home. Arabs are comfortable talking about it; they do not hesitate to talk about videos or images on internet. My husband was also like them. He would talk and write about jihadi subjects a lot. But when we talked with his family among ourselves, we would always talk about his conversations. We would say "he always talks but never does anything." Despite all [his] talks and writings "he was always criticized for doing nothing."

- Which jihadist group was he linked to?
I cannot say he was close to this or that group. In general he had a jihadist structure of ideas. Yet I cannot say he was supportive of or linked to Al-Qaeda or he was Salafi. The Taliban already claimed responsibility for the bombing. He made no effort to become a member of any kind of such groups.

- Jihadist groups have different factions. The Taliban is not a group very different to Al-Qaeda. Their actions are also similar to each other.
Sure there are different groups. My information is also the same. The Taliban is very close to Al-Qaeda.

- Suicide bombings require a very different system of belief. Not all Muslims approve of such actions.
To be honest, my husband used to write a lot and his writings were hard line. He would use a very literal discourse while writing. That's why I would not read much of what he used to write. Reading his writings would take a lot of time. As I told you, he used to read and follow verses of the Qu'ran in regard to jihad. He used to think them as a model for himself and act based on those verses. He would read the interpretations [of the Qu'ran] and Islamic law [religious knowledge] a lot. He would scan and compare various interpretations, in different sources, of verses of Qoran in regard to jihad. He would think about similar and different views of Islamist scholars on this matter; then he would criticize or defend these ideas in his own writings. He would give them as examples for proving the need for jihad, certainly, an armed struggle.

- What would he complain about? What were the points he reacted against?
The point my husband mostly complained about was this: why do we not go toward jihad? He was focused on this point. "We always write, we always read but we do nothing," he wrote. He wanted to attract attention of people on this point. He would give examples of occupied Islamic areas, pointing to Iraq as an example. The period when my husband's ideas broke out was the beginning of Iraq war. I can say Iraq's occupation caused a comprehensive transformation in my husband.

- Would you sometimes talk about and discuss these matters with your husband?
Certainly we would. He would mention his distress about America's occupation. We have to do something as Muslims; we should be able to do something because this is our duty, he used to say.

- What might he have experienced while in custody after his arrest by Jordan's General Intelligence Directorate (GID) last January?
When he was captured in Jordan, Jordan and U.S. intelligence services might have thought that they convinced my husband [to spy for them]. I really do not know the details. But I will say this, too: my husband is not a person to be easily convinced.

- Was he serving Al-Qaeda or the Taliban?
The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack but I do not know the details. I guess, probably somehow before he left, Jordan intelligence got in contact with him when he was in custody. Probably that helped secure his release in only three days. Normally, when people like him are taken into custody, they are not released very easily.

- What kind of offers might he have had from U.S. and Jordan intelligence [that might have convinced him to say he was working for them?]
I cannot understand that. But something like this might have happened: It is very hard to go to these war regions from Jordan. I believe that was the biggest reason keeping him from going despite his talk and persistent defense of jihad. Maybe they told him "We would facilitate your leaving for you." ...They might have made a lot of promises. They might have offered money. And he pretended to accept these offers just to be able to go. We would talk but he never mentioned such matters. He never told me whether he got an offer or not. However, after what happened, a person cannot help thinking about these possibilities.

- Might he have worked both for Jordan intelligence and CIA at the same time?
I believe my husband took advantage of both intelligence services. He might have showed them some [information]. And he might have gained both intelligence services' appreciation and trust in return to the information he provided. Maybe that's why he could enter the base without being searched.

- Would you understand if he was a U.S. or Jordan intelligence agent?
I would not believe that my husband might work for American or Jordan intelligence, even if you kill me. He would not manage to hide from me if something like that was true. [My husband] was not on the mountains. He used to communicate with me very easily in recent times. He would send two to three emails a day. He did not send any messages related to the action and he did not ask for my blessing. The last message he sent me was about his plan to come to Turkey.

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- Do you know how he went to Pakistan? Did he go through Turkey?
He went from Dubai. I am not someone to interfere with my husband's business. I did not make overly emotional "Oh, please do not go. What would I do" statements. I am not that kind of a person. In all our conversations, when he would say "God forbid, if something happens to me what would you do without me?" I would tell him: "God is generous, great, He is the one to provide people with one's livelihood." This is my belief. At the end, this is about belief. In my belief, it was his time for death. You cannot postpone it. It is so in the Qu'ran. So when the situation is that, the result does not change in my view. I never pushed him for this and never exploited his emotions. We would sometimes say we wished we could go to Africa and help those people in need. It was the same in Pakistan. There are a lot of people in need of help in this country. My husband's working there as a doctor would just make me happy. I would not oppose this idea. I certainly would like my husband to help and treat those who have lost their hands, arms and legs with U.S. bombs.

- Then you had the same views?
Yes, we believed in the same views. Moreover my husband and I loved each other very much. I respect the action he made. It was his own choice.

- When did you learn about his death?
I did not learn it from the media. I learned about it on the day of January 1, 2010, via a friend of his in Pakistan.

- When did you last see each other face to face?
March 18, 2009, the day he left. After that day we always talked on the phone. We would communicate more easily and often through the Internet.

- What have you been doing yourself?
Between 2005 and 2006 while living in Jordan, I worked for Vakit daily [an Islamist newspaper]. I translated news and articles published in Arab media for them. After leaving here, from 2007 until 2009, I attended a Qu'ran course.

- How would your husband spend his time at home?
He would sit with us. Usually his computer would be open. On one hand he wanted to work as a [medical] specialist, study his lessons and open new fields for himself. On the other hand, the jihadist ideas would not leave his mind. He would open his books for a short time, but then he would close the books and turn to jihadist forums and he was not able to stay away.

- Were there anybody visiting you at your house meanwhile? His doctor friends for example?
My husband's ideas and habits in this regard never changed since we got married. He would never bring anybody to our house. He would not get together with his friends from the university, he would not meet his doctor friends at our house and he would not even talk to them on the phone. He was not a sociable person. He would chat with his family, children and siblings a lot.

- What were his political views?
He defended war. He would try to convince the person in front of him while arguing. He was not interested in Jordanian politics. He was not Shia, he was Sunni. He had sympathy for Bin Laden and the Taliban. He argued that they have an important struggle.

- You started to wear the veil after the university, right?
Right, I was not veiled before. I started wearing the veil a short time before I got married.

- What did you feel when you learned that you husband committed a suicide bombing?
I learned on the phone. Naturally I was shocked. My husband used to mention that he wanted to come to Turkey all the time he was in Pakistan and even talked about becoming a Turkish citizen. It was hard to start the process when he was not here in Turkey [and] we decided that we would deal with it when he arrived. He kept saying "wait for a month or two, be patient, I will come." The children were looking at planes saying "Papa came," we were waiting so.

- What factors push an educated person, who speaks many languages and has a high living standard, to do something like that?
What is going on in Islamic [countries], in the Middle East affected him deeply. Following these events as an Arab, watching what is happening and writing about them made him a defender of jihadist ideas. Also, the situation in Arab countries is very different from Turkey. If a call for action or a declaration comes from a group [there], Al-Jazeera broadcast it all day. Jihadist forums are full of such declarations, comments, invitations. When Osama bin Laden is seen on the screen of a TV channel, there's a festival atmosphere on the streets. Youth, elderly, women, everybody respects the declarations of these groups and applauds their actions.

- As far as I understand, you were not that surprised [by the bombing].
I did not think he would carry out a mission of martyrdom. That is my surprise. But his belief was clear. He was a defender of a jihadist approach.

- Meanwhile you thought he was working. Was he sending money to you?
My husband could not send much money to me. He left some before leaving. I used it. Because I am also working, we lived on what I earn here and had no need. He used to ask for his children's photos.

- What was his characteristic you knew best?
He was certainly a U.S. enemy. I have no doubt about it. He expressed this very clearly. I also believe every Muslim should be against the U.S. They are a state occupying Islamic countries in front of us, how can there be sympathy? Not many people like the U.S. For a Muslim, what is normal is disliking the U.S., not liking it. My husband was never involved in any organizations or groups. He had no special communication with any group. Reports claimed my husband was close to the Muslim Brotherhood. He was not close to them. He attended their dinner invitations twice. I want to emphasize this particularly: he attended their meetings. He said he'd rather eat their famous mansaf than discussing their Islamist ideas [because he thought the Muslim Brotherhood was taking any action.]

- I still believe that 3-day detention in January, 2009 is the key. I also heard that they offered him paying some money. What do you know?
I believe so. Jordan intelligence might have got involved after that detention. There might have been a money offer. He might have accepted their offer and gone his way.

- His connection with these jihadist groups cannot be limited to just nine months. He must have contacted them very long ago so that he managed to convince all sides.
Yes, it is true. He might have connections with Taliban or Al-Qaeda from before. Yet I do not know the level or when it started. He would not join charity organizations for jihadist groups. He would not attend Islamist meetings. If he was not working he was always home, in front of his computer, on forums.

- Could the CIA have contacted him before?
Let's say they did. Even so, we should look at the result. He fooled them. If he is a martyr, let's pray Allah blesses his martyrdom. Because only Allah knows about martyrdom. Today, especially, this concept is made very cheap. Today they call everybody a martyr. My husband tried to do something for his belief. He managed to do a big mission.

- You have translated very interesting books from Arabic into Turkish. One is "Bin Laden: Che Guevara of the East" another one is Saddam Hussein's life story. Do you defend those ideas in those books?
When you look at the one about Bin Laden, you will see it is a book consisting of impartial articles. In Turkey, Bin Laden is seen only through the eyes of the U.S. I wanted people see him with the eyes of an Arab as well. That is why I translated the book. Regarding to my own view about Bin Laden, I believe he is someone who stands for what he believes. I respect him. They say Bin Laden is a U.S. agent. But I never believed that is so. Neither is my husband a U.S. agent. If he was, would a person sent to capture Zawahiri destroy eight people with him? This action cuts this thesis down. Will anybody America calls a terrorist become a terrorist? He is not a terrorist in my eyes. I believe both Bin Laden and my husband fought for Islam.

- There are those who believe suicide bombings are haram [forbidden by Islam], while some think them to be permissible. What is your personal view?
In the research we pursued, we reached these conclusions: if the action you take will cause a great fear in your enemy, you can do it. There are scholars defending this.

- Your husband lived in Turkey for seven years. What were his views on the country?
He was conservative in Turkey. He was absolutely not an extremist. As I told you, he changed later. His extremism got clearer between 2004 and 2009. He was sad about the general situation in Turkey; he was not happy with people becoming distant from religion. By Turkish standards, my husband [became] an extremist Islamist.

Note: There are various sources which claim that CIA offered $500,000 (maybe more) and Jordan Intelligence $100,000 to Balawi. [Senior officials of Jordanian Intelligence confirm that Balawi "earned well". A source close to his wife claims seeing the debits of the money transfers.] Bayrak says that it might be true, adding that she doesn't have information about the numbers.

(The interview in Turkish)

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